Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

I feel like even if they paid their delivery people a reasonable wage they'd still expect tips. Ive had movers that made over 50/hour not including the cost of materials/truck/etc ask for a tip.

I was all for Uber being tip free until drivers started driving for Lyft which does tips in-app, and now all the drivers expect it.

I've always felt this way with Pizza. Most places charge a delivery fee. That itself should be the tip. If it costs more to deliver a pizza then work it into the price.



The solution is to pay them better and forbid them from taking tips. Make it clear to customers that it's not even allowed, let alone expected.

Unfortunately, I don't think tipping culture is going away any time soon.


I believe Amazon did this with Amazon Fresh. The tip option in the app went away, and when I asked the delivery person, he said their pay had been increased and they were good. No tip required. He said it with a smile on his face, but who knows if he was really dying inside.


Living in Japan, love the fact that I don't have to tip anywhere!


The worst part for me - places here in NZ are trying to introduce it. I've solved it by not going back, that that doesn't work if the practice spreads.


I also live in NZ. I've seen a few places prompt for tips but typically only in areas tourists frequent. I always just tip nothing.

I'm pretty sure they are just doing it to bait Americans.


Curious, I live in Auckland and haven't seen mention of tips except in 'hipster' cafes and I rarely see gold coins or notes. I wonder if it's less about baiting Americans and more about emulating Americans.


Non solo pizza in Parnell do a hard sell on the tip. Very much a tourist location as mentioned above.


I live in Lithuania and random places are trying to introduce it, such as news agent type of convenience store. "A pack of cigarettes and here's your tip", em, no.


>The solution is to pay them better and forbid them from taking tips. Make it clear to customers that it's not even allowed, let alone expected.

That's basically what Uber did (except for "you have to refuse once"). They tried to make it a tip-not-required zone and make everyone understand this going in. And yet still, you hear the refrain,

"What, I'm basically a cabbie. Don't you tip cabbies? Shouldn't I be getting tips?"[2] [3]

Even the media coverage comes with that implicit assumption. To paraphrase: "under the ruling, Uber drivers can solicit tips -- you know, like cabbies, duh".[1]

It's like people think that tipping cabbies is some fundamental invariant of reality rather than a default custom that can be overridden by explicit agreement. [2]

My uncle still thinks I'm a bad person because I didn't visibly tip the Lyft driver. "No, it's through the app" 'sure, sure...'.

[1] warning: browser-abusive site even with blockers: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-22/tipping-i...

[2] Characteristic example: https://www.quora.com/Should-you-tip-your-Uber-or-Lyft-drive...

[3] And in fairness, a lot of what drives the attitude is that the pay dropped so low that it effectively only works as a tipped job


I imagine the "contractor" status of Uber drivers gets in the way. If they'd bite the bullet and hire drivers as proper employees, a prohibition on taking tips might stick.


There's a restaurant in my neighborhood that does this (no tips, built into the price) and I really appreciate it. It's so much "easier" that I'm more inclined to drop in.


Just to be clear, for pizza places that charge a delivery fee, most of the time that does not go to the driver. You should still tip your driver.


Which is the problem in the first place.

Why are we taught by people to tip some personell and not to tip others?

Because the first group has a very low income. That's why. Because corporations cannot be trusted to treat their people nicely. That's why. Because the first group usually works hard and shows effort, while the others don't. That's why.

I don't mind to tip when someone has done an excellent service, but i always try to make sure my tip goes to that person directly and not some weird strange thing like a jar or a fund the corporation came up with.


> Why are we taught by people to tip some personell and not to tip others?

> Because corporations cannot be trusted to treat their people nicely. That's why.

No, it's noblesse oblige: I am well off, and therefor it is my duty to show my appreciation to those who perform services for me.


Don't neglect that you get a little bit of affirmation from it. I am the powerful money holder here, you are the person relying on charity from me to make the rent. Maybe I'll even make you dance a little for it.

Really helps cement the power relationship and emphasise the class differences.


> Because the first group has a very low income

That's the incentive to work hard so that you are not part of that group. That group doesn't have much to offer, and often didn't work hard to offer anything society valued. I knew, from an early age, that the consequence of not trying at school was ending up in a dead-end job.

> Because the first group usually works hard and shows effort, while the others don't

Citation needed - their work is hard because they have little leverage. Some have the deck stacked against them, fair enough, but that first group exists in places with less opportunity inequality, and far more welfare than in the US.

Many people spend most of their lives on their careers, trying to improve their worth to society, and offer things deemed valuable. Few go into accounting for the love of it, but because society desires accountants.

EDIT: there are exceptions. Temporary jobs held by students, people from impoverished backgrounds, or who were never motivated to succeed, low-skilled immigrants that fall into these last two categories. These are exceptional, sympathetic situations (except students, their condition is temporary), but society should seek to reduce these groups, rather than normalise them by developing some kind of coping mechanism. Welfare is a good safety net for all citizens, but low-paid work is too. The problem is groups who are stuck in ow-paid work with little opportunity to escape; in those cases it's not "greedy" corporations to do anything - it's exclusively the governments role to participate in any social engineering efforts.


>That's the incentive to work hard so that you are not part of that group.

It's an incentive, but not the solution. It's way way more complex than a "just work hard and everything will be ok" stigma.

>Some have the deck stacked against them, fair enough,

Over 80% of the world population lives in poverty. I don't know what kind of decks are dealt, but casinos would be purchasing these decks by the millions.


> "just work hard and everything will be ok" stigma

That's not a stigma, it's an ideal. There is no better solution.

> Over 80% of the world population

I was talking about capitalist america, not the world.


Fair enough. How many americans live in poverty?


Depends what measure and definition you use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States


> and not some weird strange thing like a jar or a fund the corporation came up with.

BTW, if a company puts out a tip jar, by law that tip jar must actually go to the employees. The company cannot come along and take the contents of the jar for itself (and if they try, employees can sue them).


What if they cannot afford or are afraid to sue?

These people depend very heavily on having an income/job.


You could make that same argument about literally any illegal thing an employer can do to its employees. Tip jars are not somehow extra-risky.


And this fee is paying who for what?


Sometimes the company just takes it for itself. Sometimes the restaurant is contracting out with a third-party company for deliveries and the delivery fee goes to the third-party company (but, again, not to the driver themselves).


Profits


It depends on the pizzeria. Some give part or all of it to the driver, some don't. Ask the driver if you want to know.


With pizza, your solution can't work. You have to pay the driver base pay, and they get tips on top. So the base pay has to come from the menu price + delivery fee, and if you get rid of the delivery fee, it has to come from the menu price. But if you raise that, you're distorting demand by making in-restaurant purchases more expensive.


Arent in-restaurant purchases more expensive for the business, considering they need to rent space and employ waiters?

A large percentage of the pizza restaurants that deliver here offer a discount for online purchases, so tgey have essentially done what you describe.


Pizza places in the UK typically give a discount for collection from the shop, which presumably accounts for the delivery cost.

It's not expected to tip a delivery person, though some people do.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: