If your going to talk about abusing people's privacy then perhaps you should also mention how Apple abuses the privacy of their Chinese users by allowing the Chinese Government to have unfettered access to all of their cloud data.
There is nothing Apple can do to preserve their Chinese user's privacy against their own government. Either they stay in China and allow the government to access their citizen's data, or they leave China and another phone manufacturer will allow the government to access their citizen's data.
Google on the other hand is under no such pressure to violate their user's privacy. They could stop at any time, but have decided that the increased revenue and margins they can extract from the data is more valuable than their user's privacy.
This seems so obvious to me, I don't understand why this false equivalence is brought up so often.
> There is nothing Apple can do to preserve their Chinese user's privacy against their own government. Either they stay in China and allow the government to access their citizen's data, or they leave China and another phone manufacturer will allow the government to access their citizen's data.
Apple could absolutely leave China if they really cared about privacy; the backlash against the govt would be huge - your argument "but if we're not abusing your privacy, someone else might instead!" just backs the claim that Apple is doing it by choice, and their own free will. Both are doing it for money.
There will be no “backlash” against the government. China is not a typical democracy.
And do you really want a corporation to have the ability to hold a nation state hostage? What’s next? Allow us to sell our stuff without taxes, or we’ll shut shop and let you handle the outcry? Allow us to circumvent <insert a corporate
unfriendly law here> or we’ll let you have it?
For better or worse, a corporation can’t be allowed to dictate the policies of a nation state. Yes, it is sad that the Chinese don’t get the same privacy rights as citizens of other countries, but that is a problem with the law of the land, not any company.
Actually, there is something Apple can do. They can start by not offering iCloud services in China. Sure, it would be an inconvenience for many, but at least they would be protecting the privacy of their users by not sharing their data with the government.
>Google on the other hand is under no such pressure to violate their user's privacy. They could stop at any time, but have decided that the increased revenue and margins they can extract from the data is more valuable than their user's privacy.
There is also no pressure on Apple to violate their users privacy. But, they do it because China represents a large percentage of their revenue growth. If it were not for their cooperation with the Chinese government their stock would tank. China is one of their largest markets, if not the largest, so of course privacy was always going to take a back seat.
>This seems so obvious to me, I don't understand why this false equivalence is brought up so often.
Probably because of Apple's hypocrisy on privacy and human rights. It's absolutely disgusting to listen Tim Cook preach about human rights and privacy, with every interview he does, considering their business practices in China.
That is one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard. Apple (or any other company) can’t refuse the law of the land. Had they refused, the Chinese government would simply have told them to pack their bags. Someone else would have replaced Apple and the users would still be in the same position.
Apple can go against prevalent business practices, other companies etc, but they can’t go against the law. And they shouldn’t even try! Do you really want a corporation having enough power to go against the law? If you live in a country where someone (including the government) can legally force you to forego your privacy, there is literally nothing you can do - except try and get the laws changed - something you may not have the power to do - even in a democracy.
The difference between Apple and Google is that Google is doing things which may not be desirable despite no law compelling them to. If the US government (or any other government) manages to pass a law which says that Apple must turn over all the user data they have - or that they must collect certain types of data, there is nothing Apple can do other than comply - or shut shop. The sole reason other Apple can resist other countries’ governments is because no one has passed laws similar to China yet. There are people who resist the passage of such laws - something that is not the case with China. Apple (or any corporation) is not going to war with a nation state over the rights of the said nation state.
Your defense of Apple's cooperation with the Chinese government is repugnant. Apple could have easily decided not to open data centers in China if they really valued the privacy of their Chinese users. Tim Cook said that privacy is a human right. Apparently, Tim Cook doesn't believe Chinese citizens deserve privacy because they happily hand over all of their data to the Chinese government. It's quite clear that that the additional revenue generated by the Chinese App store and iCloud services far exceeds the human rights of their users.
>The difference between Apple and Google is that Google is doing things which may not be desirable despite no law compelling them to.
No, the difference between Apple and Google is that Google decided to leave China rather than cooperate with the government.
>If the US government (or any other government) manages to pass a law which says that Apple must turn over all the user data they have - or that they must collect certain types of data, there is nothing Apple can do other than comply - or shut shop.
I am not defending Apple. My point is that no corporation an (or should) is above the law. If the law is problematic, it should be fixed. But no one can be allowed to go against it.
Let’s say Apple leaves China. So what next? Do you have any contingencies outlined where the people of China get their rights?
And by the way, it’s not about Cook. Decisions like these are made by the board with shareholders’ agreement. I recommend you learn how things work before you go bashing.
There is a simple fact here you seem to be ignoring. If you want to do business in China, you follow Chinese laws.
If you have issues with China's human rights, you should encourage your local government to take up that issue. Your post reads like a bunch of raw emotion and statements like "Tim Cook doesn't believe" that which are just impossible for anyone BUT Tim Cook to know. Relying upon supposition of what you think a person thinks, and extending that to a company to arrive at a conclusion of: money > human rights is... pretty sad as arguments go.
I must have missed the part where Google is letting state run Chinese companies run their data centers and sharing the data with the Chinese government. When that happens then Apple and Google will be on equal footing when it comes to China.
>If you have issues with China's human rights, you should encourage your local government to take up that issue. Your post reads like a bunch of raw emotion and statements like "Tim Cook doesn't believe" that which are just impossible for anyone BUT Tim Cook to know. Relying upon supposition of what you think a person thinks, and extending that to a company to arrive at a conclusion of: money > human rights is... pretty sad as arguments go.
What's really sad is that Apple's revenue from China is far too lucrative for Tim Cook to really care about human rights and privacy. Tim Cook knows he'd probably be ousted as CEO if he ever tried to exit China.
> I must have missed the part where Google is letting state run Chinese companies run their data centers and sharing the data with the Chinese government. When that happens then Apple and Google will be on equal footing when it comes to China.
Are you suggesting Google is being allowed to store Chinese citizens’ data on servers outside China? If the servers are within Chinese territory, it doesn’t matter who is hosting them - they are subject to the same laws.
I thought it was pretty clear. Google has no data centers in China which means they don't subject their users to unfettered government searches of their data.
Google has been trying for years to get back into China and they have no problems acquiescing to whatever the Chinese government requires to do so [1].
