As someone who uses Metasploit, Canvas, Burp Suite Pro and am currently evaluating Netsparker I might be able to offer an unbiased view.
Metasploit is an exploitation framework. There's different versions available (community, pro etc.). The community version has a web app scanner and is reasonably ok, but it tends to be caught by intrusion detection systems fairly easily and it's payloads often don't clean up properly. It's better suited to infrastructure exploitation, but can be used in a web app context.
Canvas[1] has some limited web app scanning capability but has more of a core focus on infrastructure exploitation.
Burp Suite Pro[2] is a framework for testing web applications. It's probably the best tool out there for testing web apps (if you know what you're doing). It's also ludicrously cheap and there is a free version for non-commercial use. It comes with a fairly comprehensive web app scanner.
NetSparker is a web application scanner. From what I can tell it's mainly competing with things like Accunetix. It has some features that are similar to Metasploit Pro but focuses primarily on the application layer. It sits more between Burp Suite Pro and Canvas for my purposes. You can download an eval from http://www.mavitunasecurity.com/ or the community edition.
Metasploit mostly focuses on Infrastructure and exploiting known vulnerabilities.
Netsparker is solely focused on web application security (detection & exploitation). For example Netsparker can crawl AJAX/Javascript apps, support form authentication etc. Metasploit on the other hand possibly will never do that kind of stuff.
You are comparing a $1000 commercial product to open source Ruby code. Metasploit is sponsored by Rapid7, which does in fact have a product that is competitive with your offering.
Do we need to get into a detailed discussion of why I think the plug for your scanner is inappropriate for this thread? Or can we just let it suffice to say that HN isn't a great place to promote products on random threads?
I don't know when HN became a place where hackers felt afraid of plugging their products - given that we are all hackers trying to build/sell products - where appropriate.
I don't get the big fuss.
If it was a story about Bingo Cards, and patio11 plugged bcc.com I am pretty sure you wouldn't be all worked up about this.
Let's just calm it down a notch and not try to be kingmaker's here.
If the community found the plug abhorrent, they would downvote it. He would get the point.
Although, to be quite honest, now you have given his product even more promotion and visibility so it's a net positive for him - not sure it's the result you wanted in the first place.
And given that I would likely do something similar, kudos to him for every extra dollar he has earned from your rant.
I'm not comparing, I'm telling the difference. Just like Netsparker will not do port scanning, possibly Metasploit will not do full web app stuff. You can talk with someone from Rapid7 and they'll tell you the same thing. And for the record I love Metasploit, it's a fantastic tool.
We have a good relationship with Rapid7 guys, they even has a module to import Netsparker results into Metasploit and we keep getting synced with them in new updates.
> Or can we just let it suffice to say that HN isn't a great place to promote products on random threads?
Personally I love seeing other HNers to send their relative products, projects, startups, commercial ideas, job ads in HN threads, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. You might think otherwise, that's why there is one upvote and one downvote button.
Metasploit isn't web application penetration tool. W3af, the other open source security tool Rapid7 sponsors, is. Meanwhile, Rapid7's commercial offering, Nexpose, also crawls Ajax applications and, if this flaw is as simple as people seem to think it is, would likely have found it... as would OWASP WebScarab or Burp (a tool that costs a fraction of what your tool does and belongs in the back pocket of every web developer).
I'm responding harshly because I do not agree with your logic (to wit: any thread involving security is a great place to plug your scanner) and because I found your comparison of Netsparker to Metasploit disingenuous: Metasploit simply isn't Rapid7's web app offering.
Disclaimer: I use Metasploit on a more or less daily basis, as well as Burp Suite Pro and more recently have been evaluating NetSparker Community Edition as our Canvas D2 subscription is up for renewal, and we've been considering switching to NetSparker. I've met Ferruh once at DC4420[1] and he seemed like a sound guy to have a beer with.
Ferruh was simply responding to a direct question about how it was different. Sure, he's the author but a) he was asked. b) he's probably best suited.
Ferruh isn't running a matasano scale operation, he's doing it on his own, peldi style.
It's not inappropriate for him to discuss his product, nor to answer questions on it - this is a startup community after all. At what point did you become the HN comment police?
It's one of a large variety of tools that addresses this problem, which begs for a response clarifying where his product fits in and what its strengths and weaknesses are. Now we're no longer talking about SQLI on MYSQL.COM; we're talking about scanners... because a vendor wants us to.
But, more to the point, how annoying would it be if every time I responded to a comment on HN, I added "this is one of the many things we take care of it you get us to review your applications"?
When threads are about products, I think it's fine --- helpful, even! --- to point out competing offerings and alternatives. But on news stories, let's just keep the commercial offerings off the threads.
I disagree with you sir. I think the plug was fully appropriate given that others reading this story might want to scan their own sites/app and not want to look around for something.
If you don't like it, downvote it...but given that it has been upvoted some 15 times as of this writing, I think the community agrees that it provides some value.
Ahh...now I get it. I was wondering why this plug peeved you so much. You compete with that guy.
Wow...talk about having a vested interest.
This is so unfortunate because now I have to double check grievances on HN to see who has a vested interests - which degrades the integrity of the community.
For someone with such high karma...this is so disappointing.
It may have been (to paraphase an earlier tptacek ranty comment) 'disingenious' of him not to disclose that he does web app security, but it's not necessarily his vested interest at fault.
For what it's worth, I often disagree with tptacek and while I lack the HN celebrity status, I don't really care because in the real world he's just another guy on the other side of the world arguing on the Internet. I do think that he's not motivated by commercial greed in his commentary though, and on the whole his comments (while I've never met him personally) display a good level of honesty, integrity and community spirit.
Unfortunately in this case he's gone after someone who in my experience is the epitome of what HN should be encouraging - a guy in an industry, who's set up on his own, who has written and sells a product more or less solo that helps address the specific problem being discussed. If this was bingo cards noone would give patio11 any grief for talking about BCC. What's worse is that tptacek's company is several orders of magnitude bigger than Ferruh's and his services directly compete, but I don't think tptacek was thinking of this at the time of his post, and certainly not looking for any commercial advantage.
I understand and appreciate that line of reasoning - had it been for a one off comment and had it been someone else.
We are talking about the guy with the most karma points on HN - so he knows the culture - and we are talking about (presumably) someone that owns & runs his own company. So at the very least, ignoring that this guy is his competitor, given that he is the highest ranking member on HN (karma-wise aside from PG), he should be applauding someone that has taken the road he travelled earlier and built his wonderful firm that he is running today.
Yet he tears him a part, not on one instance - i.e. in a reply to one comment, but if you look through the thread there are MANY comments when he jumps on the guys back.
It's totally and completely unacceptable, for any HN member to deal with any non-trolling HN member like that. Regardless of karma points.
What makes it worse is that he has a vested interest. So the only rational excuse is that 2 + 2 = 4.
Why else would he betray the ethos & spirit of HN so blatantly ? Let the truth be told, it could very well be just that he was having a bad day or whatever it is - but given that this is a story closely related to his main bread and butter you would think that he would be extra cautious.
What he has done here, is the equivalent of PG ripping apart a plug by someone from TechStars or any of the other incubators (e.g. the program in Chile that I see pop-up here from time to time, or the one in Ireland or the UK most recently) when they come here to post a 'shameless plug'.
That would be very irresponsible for PG to do.
As I said, if it were someone else that was new to the community I could let it slide...but not for someone that is CLEARLY the most karma'd person here.
I am afraid being the person with the most karma doesn't make him an epitome of hacker ethics or shining beacon of hope but mostly a guy who knows very well how to work it. They have those "superstars" on reddit as well (just look for andrewsmith) and well, we also have them here, even if that leaves a bad taste in some mouths... looks like it is a very human thing after all.
I understand that it might come across as mean...but that doesn't change that it is the truth.
I think it is fair to say that Matasano is well known on HN - based on your valuable contributions to the community.
That is also why it was so disappointing to me - who has watched you add value to the community over the years - to see how you handled a seemingly 'innocuous' plug.
The modus operandi for dealing with those things is downvote and maybe one comment. But you not only likely downvoted but made MANY comments. Constantly attacking the guy.
It was clear that there was something else below the surface. I just didn't know what. I thought that perhaps you guys might have had beef or perhaps the OP might have been a known troll or something, but nothing in his history would indicate that he was trolling. He seemed to be legit.
So it was only when I looked at your profile that I was reminded of your affiliation with his competitor that it jumped out at me.
It was as if Bill Gates was here criticizing someone else for plugging their own OS - because it was 'inappropriate', when it was fully appropriate.
So I apologize if my calling it out offended you, but your conduct offended me and the sensibilities of this community.
I would be doing as much disservice to the community, if I sat on the sidelines and didn't say anything.
Shameless self plug: Netsparker ( My startup: http://www.netsparker.com/ ) could have identified both of these vulnerabilities.