SOPA has relieved me of any illusion that the Democratic Party is at all useful or decent. They're just as bad as the other guys.
I will be likely voting Republican (for the first time in my life) for at least some of the 2012 elections, out of my commitment to vote against any incumbent who supports or votes for SOPA. Vote the bastards out. #FireSOPA #FirePIPA
"I will be likely voting Republican (for the first time in my life) for at least some of the 2012 elections, out of my commitment to vote against any incumbent who supports or votes for SOPA."
You've got to try to understand the kind of message seeing more Republican votes sends the Democrats.
When they see the Republicans get more votes, their strategy over the last 20 years is to move more to the "center" (ie. more to the right). By voting for Republicans, you are helping no one but the Republicans/conservatives. If that's what you want, then go for it. But if you want a more liberal/progressive government, voting for the Republicans is counterproductive, even if you do help to vote a bunch of spineless Democrats out.
The real way to combat the Democrats' shift to the right is to vote for a more liberal/progressive party, like the Greens. This strategy has worked wonders for conservatives, when they started to vote en-masse for Tea Party candidates. Now the Tea Party, an extreme right wing group, is an influential member of the right wing landscape, even if there's no Tea Party president yet and the vast majority of right wing congressmen are not Tea Party members yet either. The Tea Party still has a significant influence on policy, and on shifting the Republican party to the right. A similar strategy can work for progressives who want to push the Democrats more to the left.
I tend to vote Green or leftist in not-close elections just because I figure the marginal effect of 1 vote is higher. The difference between 5 and 6 percent is a lot bigger than that between 30 and 31 percent, or 69 and 70 percent.
When they see the Republicans get more votes, their strategy over the last 20 years is to move more to the "center" (ie. more to the right).
That's because they're bought and paid-for by the same people as the Republicans. Almost all politicians are vector sums of corporations; you're just voting for one portfolio over another.
Democrat or Republican, as soon as they get invited to assholes' parties in Aspen and Easthampton, they fall in love with the asshole world and do whatever they can to stay connected to it. This social phenomenon has a technical name: goatsefication.
While I agree with your sentiment that the Democratic Party isn't useful or decent, they are not "just as bad." Both parties are full of slimy politicians, admittedly. But if given the choice, I will continue to support the slimy politicians who protect a women's right to choose and start less wars in general. It might not be a grand ethical stand, but these issues matter to me.
That being said, I understand people's frustrations with the system and wish there was a legitimate way to support third parties in a way that felt effective.
"That being said, I understand people's frustrations with the system and wish there was a legitimate way to support third parties in a way that felt effective."
That makes no sense. What better way is there to support third parties than voting for them?
Your vote isn't going to be the deciding factor in the election, so why not vote for the third party candidate who most closely matches your views?
The better way to support third parties is to vote for them in a system where votes for smaller third parties actually make some form of difference, like a proportional representation system.
I disagree. Not voting for a major party is little better than not voting, when it comes to effecting change.
If there's ever to be hope of voting reform in this country, it has to be done by getting a major party to adopt it, presumably by convincing them that they'll gain a lot of supporters by doing so.
I'm not sure that's true, because they will still have to appease their other constituents in the existing base by making compromises (that will make you not want to vote for them again)
Well, it wouldn't be easy, and I think there's a reason we don't see any meaningful electoral reform, but I don't see another way.
Perhaps one could convince the major parties to support electoral reform by constantly hitting them with spoiling candidates. Run left-wing independents in districts which are typically safe for Democrats but still reasonably close. Run right-wing independents in districts which are close but Republican. If you can get both major parties to get fed up with losing seemingly safe seats due to the first-past-the-post system, that might get them to change it.
I count nine Republican initial supporters and four Democrat initial supporters. Where are you getting the "...illusion that the Democratic Party is at all useful or decent" part at all?
from Wikipedia(you know how to get there still):
The Stop Online Piracy Act was introduced by Representative Lamar Smith (R-TX) and was initially co-sponsored by Howard Berman (D-CA), Marsha Blackburn (R-TN), Mary Bono Mack (R-CA), Steve Chabot (R-OH), John Conyers (D-MI), Ted Deutch (D-FL), Elton Gallegly (R-CA), Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), Timothy Griffin (R-AR), Dennis A. Ross (R-FL), Adam Schiff (D-CA) and Lee Terry (R-NE). As of January 16, 2012, there were 31 sponsors.[82]
> I count nine Republican initial supporters and four Democrat initial supporters. Where are you getting the "...illusion that the Democratic Party is at all useful or decent" part at all?
The OP's whole point is that the Democratic party is arguably less bad than the Republicans, but that they are still very bad and deserve no loyalty. Your pointing out that more Republicans initially supported the bill does not conflict with this.
Here is a list by propublica.org which lists likely supporters and opponents for SOPA/PIPA.
I understand that they are about equally as bad; I don't understand the conclusion: "vote republican because those democrats are bad." If anything vote libertarian or independent to show disapproval. Vote against the people in your congress/senate that support it.
I am not going to argue here which one is less bad because that's pointless and off topic. I am merely pointing out the logical disconnect that I saw.
Well, you misinterpreted. The conclusion of michaelochurch was decidedly not to "vote republican because those democrats are bad." He said
> I will be likely voting Republican (for the first time in my life) for at least some of the 2012 elections, out of my commitment to vote against any incumbent who supports or votes for SOPA
This is the important point - the US doesn't have a strong party system. Senators aren't evicted from their party when they cross the party line like they are in other countries.
Outside of the presidential election, voters in the US don't vote for the Democratic Party or the Republican Party, they vote for their electoral reprentative. The party of the representatives on offer might be a decent heuristic for their policies and values, but the informed voter has a lot more information at their fingertips than just that.
Worse, with a 2 party system you can't necessarily vote for your preferred candidate. In most cases, elections are so skewed toward Democrat/Republican candidates and often are so close between the two that you have no short-term effect unless you vote for the Democratic or Republican you hate the least.
I'm a conservative, so I normally vote Republican, but it's not hard to recognize the corruption this represents. Everybody on that list, regardless of party, needs to be run out of office. The more tar and feathers involved the happier I'll be.
Perhaps, but the incumbent-victory rate in national elections is very high. I think it's about 95%. That's incredible job security. It might make sense to vote for a not-bad Republican (maybe not Paladino) just to get new blood, and replace him with a real Democrat in 2-6 years.
A consequence of the two-party system (and the lack of will of the political parties to challenge their own incumbents) is that shitty Democrats are more damaging than equally shitty Republicans, because they take up that "slot" (usually; credible primary challenges are really rare) can only be replaced by Republicans.
Getting into office is really, really hard. But once these people are in, they have a sub-5% per year chance of getting fired. That's ludicrous given that (a) positions of power should be harder to keep, and (b) their performance has been awful for the past few decades.
I heard that legislators in North Korea have a lower chance of getting re-elected than U.S. legislators.
If I was the dictator of the U.S., I'd change the constitution so that Congress gets drafted. People would get selected to be Congressmen by random lottery.
I'd imagine that a good fraction of Americans chosen randomly would be corruptible, but a good fraction of them would be incorruptible, and it would be too dangerous to recruit corrupt legislators: you'd have too high of a chance of having somebody (i) call the cops, (ii) pull a gun, or (iii) punch you in the face.
The current selection process selects for :Respectable people for whom being :Respectable is accepting that other people are :Respectable. Many ordinary Americans, be they "good ol boys" or inner-city blacks, won't play that game.
Uhm, a 95% re-election rate is not a 5% chance of getting fired ever. The chance of being re-elected N times is (1-0.05)^N, so the chance of not being re-elected N times is 1 - (1 - 0.05)^N. For N = 10 (a nice twenty year run in the House), that's only ~ 60% chance of being re-elected each time. For N = 15, it drops to 46%. I think that's actually pretty reasonable, you've got enough security at the beginning to allow you some latitude but not so much that you stop caring.
I will be likely voting Republican (for the first time in my life) for at least some of the 2012 elections, out of my commitment to vote against any incumbent who supports or votes for SOPA. Vote the bastards out. #FireSOPA #FirePIPA