What's funny - to me - is that I'm sitting here asking myself "why is this even a story?" I do not work more than 8 hours a day, when working any sort of $DAYJOB. I just don't... there's no good reason to, and I'm not going to do it. My time belongs to me (or, more appropriately, to my startup) and the opportunity cost of spending extra hours at "the office" is just way too high.
Now, if I were working for someone else's startup, or working on my startup full-time, and had significant equity and working long hours had a direct correlation between my chances of becoming independently wealthy, then sure. In fact, I already work 60 or 70 (or more) hours a week, since I'm spending almost all of my night and weekend hours on Fogbeam Labs as it is.
But, yeah... unless there's a compelling reason to work long days at a job that is basically "just a salary", I refuse to do it. I don't really give a shit what my coworkers, boss, or anyone else thinks about it.
I think you picked the worst example. I have heard harsh warnings about going into the (German) game industry since I was a freshman. And I have heard bad things out of the most famous German game shop during their last AAA release crunchtime, so it doesn't seem to have gotten any better.
It is news to where I work. When I interviewed I was told 40 to 45 hours a week. I get here and was doing 40 hours and then told they need "more hours out of us" and "it would be different if there wasn't a backup of work" (which as far as I could tell there wasn't any, just one of the devs constantly changing stuff).
There are 3 devs (including me) and the other two keep putting in much more than 40 hours whereas I strive for just 40. When I first started I tried for more but then I realized that it didn't matter. There was no incentive for me. It actually made me hate the job more and more.
I get here and was doing 40 hours and then told they need "more hours out of us" and "it would be different if there wasn't a backup of work" (which as far as I could tell there wasn't any, just one of the devs constantly changing stuff).
Call me radical (and more than a little bit reckless) but I find the appropriate response to that to be some combination of:
"Then hire more people"
and/or
"I quit"
Of course, I am single with no wife/kids/etc., and not a lot of responsibilities except to myself, so I can afford to be a bit cavalier. I understand that not everybody can, but in that case, I would use the situation as motivation to go with the adage "If I can't find the job I want, I'll create the job I want" and start a startup. Yeah, you wind up working even more hours then, but - at least for me - it's justified because the goal is to create a better situation for yourself in the end.
But again, I acknowledge that my path isn't for everybody and that everyone's story and constraints are different. So please don't take this response as being judgmental or anything. Just offering another perspective...
I agree with that and definitely want(ed) to do that but my situation wasn't the best for that doing that:
- no CS degree and no professional dev experience
- saving for a wedding that is happening this October
- quit a job that paid decent (for an Economics major ;) ) to do this.
I'm planning to leave around my 1 year mark so I can find a better place to work (oh did I mention they offer 0 days off for the first year, turns out it is a much bigger deal than I thought it would be for me). So in my free time I work on my blog, post some code and keep on taking my MS classes.
This is the red flag. They may genuinely need more productivity, but any company that thinks it can get more productivity out of devs by letting them work more hours is being fundamentally mismanaged.
Long hours are virtually always a symptom something else is very wrong.
Oh I most definitely agree. I think the problem is that the company isn't a tech company (it is debt collection) and the people who bring money in can work 5 extra hours and bring in more money. The owners aren't tech savvy and definitely don't know the first thing about development. I think in their mind they figure the collectors can work 5 hours and make x more money than the devs should be able to work 5 hours and increase productivity by y.
It is a red flag but unfortunately I was told this AFTER I started the job and figured I wouldn't be able to get another job since I have no dev experience and no CS degree.
Now, if I were working for someone else's startup, or working on my startup full-time, and had significant equity and working long hours had a direct correlation between my chances of becoming independently wealthy, then sure. In fact, I already work 60 or 70 (or more) hours a week, since I'm spending almost all of my night and weekend hours on Fogbeam Labs as it is.
But, yeah... unless there's a compelling reason to work long days at a job that is basically "just a salary", I refuse to do it. I don't really give a shit what my coworkers, boss, or anyone else thinks about it.