I see this line of reasoning quite a bit and it’s a strange one to me. The arguer reduces the sheer complexity of human intelligence and language by saying “we are just running statistical models in our brains” and by doing so makes the leap that Llms are intelligent. It’s an incredible simplification of the human person, who has a deep inner life, a soul, desires, and a will.
I don’t think the aversion to llms as intelligent has to do with the economics of paying intelligent agents more. I’d argue that it’s more fundamental than that. Humans are incredibly complex, and the world of sharing invisible things called knowledge, and the intelligent persons consuming such things which has been going on for thousands of years is far more rich than these synthetic outputs.
When it comes down to it the ai has no inner life, its is dead. A useful coding tool sure. But I wouldn’t call it intelligent.
One side example is just how bad these llms are at artistry. Just saying whatever should statically come next is not good art—and the outputs show it.
You mention LLMs are dead and don't have the complexity or inner life that people do. Is your opinion that these kinds of things are not possible for AI in general, or that these things might be possible but we're just not there yet with modern LLMs?
You mentioned LLMs don't have souls, desire, or a will. I imagine those latter two can be engineered, no?
My view is that these sorts of things are not possible for AI in general. Though we can create things and name them “will” and “desire”.
Software deals with metaphors. Your Amazon shopping cart is a metaphor of a real shopping cart. You your desktop and your file system, etc. are metaphors of real items. But we don’t mistake the metaphor for its object, even from inanimate objects to their software counterparts (shopping cart to Amazon cart).
Now the metaphors are dealing with humanness, things like intelligence etc. And rather than seeing it as software doing what it always does, taking things and creating software metaphors of them, we are starting to say these are actually what they are named. Saying the artificial intelligence is actually an intelligence.
We’d either have to reduce the definition of intelligence such that calculators are intelligent. Or admit that these tools are not intelligent and are rather ways of exploring the work of actual intelligent beings, work that is found in their training data.
> My view is that these sorts of things are not possible for AI in general.
I wonder what it would take build an artificial system that has these qualities.
> Software deals with metaphors.
This is me wondering again: what's fundamentally different between software running on a machine compared to what's happening in our brains? In both cases you have energy flow following a pattern.
It's conceivable to create a system where energy flows in a particular way.
BTW, we navigate the world of an uncountable number of particles by creating models in our heads of what we think are large things out there. Approximations are made by both artificial and biological systems.
> what's fundamentally different between software running on a machine compared to what's happening in our brains? In both cases you have energy flow following a pattern.
Assuming we’ve scratched the surface of the complexity of the brain. I’d say in one case a human with a will is steering that flow of energy. In the other case it is a probabilistic algorithm steering the flow of energy.
The AI is not interacting with world with its own will. I see that as a big difference.
There are presuppositions that go beyond the realm of software engineering that guide one’s views of these things. One is whether you believe the material world is all that is, and that human consciousness is a product of the brain—or that there is such a thing as the soul or spirit of man. From the material perspective you may posit that if you emulate the brain then a sort of AI consciousness could arise. Or that emulating the patterns of the brain equates to emulating personhood. (Though what is material consciousness? I’d say consciousness is by nature immaterial.) I’m not a materialist, and I don’t believe the conclusions that arise from it’s perspectives are accurate.
Well they're language models. You can't capture the human experience in language. Simple as that.
> Is your opinion that these kinds of things are not possible for AI in general, or that these things might be possible but we're just not there yet with modern LLMs?
I used to be on the side of "we're just not there yet [with AI in general]", but after seeing people's response to an algorithm optimized to tickle just their language instinct, I'm actually a little bit more on the fence about it.
I'm in the same boat, I think some aspects can be engineered, like intention and desire. I'm really curious if it's possible to go the full distance and make AI have experience like we do.
I don’t think the aversion to llms as intelligent has to do with the economics of paying intelligent agents more. I’d argue that it’s more fundamental than that. Humans are incredibly complex, and the world of sharing invisible things called knowledge, and the intelligent persons consuming such things which has been going on for thousands of years is far more rich than these synthetic outputs.
When it comes down to it the ai has no inner life, its is dead. A useful coding tool sure. But I wouldn’t call it intelligent.
One side example is just how bad these llms are at artistry. Just saying whatever should statically come next is not good art—and the outputs show it.