My daughter has lived in Brooklyn since she graduated from an Ivy, class of 2011. She has a liberal arts degree. She found a job where she started in the mid 30’s. After two and a half years she’s broken 40 but not by much. She works about 60 hours a week. Her last review made her a manager so she gets no overtime. She works in an industry that caters to luxury so the company is setting income records. The money is all flowing to the top. It’s an employers market and the starting salary the company now offers is lower then it was when she started because there are so many college graduates looking for anything resembling a job.
She lived in Park Slope for the first two years, sharing a two bedroom, fifth floor walkup, attic apartment. The entire apartment was maybe 20 x 20 ft with a good part of it of limited use due to the slant of the roof. Rent was $1,500 a month including utilities. It was a great neighborhood though and she really enjoyed her time there.
The apartment building was sold to a luxury developer and the rent was raised to $2,300 a month. The new owners really just wanted the building empty so they could gut it and change it to luxury apartments. We walked by there this past weekend and the place was boarded up.
Her new apartment is a legitimate two bedroom in a clean but very old building on the edges of Boerum Hill. The neighborhood is okay but you need to be aware that two blocks away it starts get dodgy very quickly. The rent is $2,200 + utilities. Her and her apartment mate looked for two months to find the apartment. It was the only thing they could find that was affordable but wasn’t a filthy dump. The leases on the old and new places overlapped by a month and a half but they had to look early because the inventory is so limited.
Real estate in NYC has gone crazy. Manhattan prices are driven by international buyers looking for a place that’s safe. One bedroom apartments in Manhattan for less than a million are becoming scarce according to the NYT. Brooklyn is priced at what Manhattan was a couple of years ago. The downtown area of Brooklyn has been very popular because of the availability of mass transit to get people into their jobs in Manhattan. As you move out from downtown Brooklyn the commute time increases quickly as subway lines spread out and express trains make less frequent stops. Two to three hours a day on a subway commute becomes old very quickly.
NYC is a great place but unless you have some equity in the place you work you’re very likely not going to be able to afford to have the life you think is waiting for you there.
Three hours a day on the subway from almost anywhere in Brooklyn to almost anywhere in Manhattan is a stretch. I commute from Bay Ridge - the far end of the "R" line in Brooklyn, and not express - to Little Italy, daily. Door-to-door, the commute is about 45 minutes. My rent is under $1600 for a large 1BR in an elevator building with laundry.
Coming from Philadelphia, where I lived in a 2BR HOUSE with a yard and all the amenities for $400/mo less, there was some sticker shock. But when you get to it, there's a lot more opportunity, a lot more options, a lot more of...everything. New York is about "a lot". That's what you pay for.
People seem to be unwilling to explore neighborhoods outside of a 20-minute ride to down/midtown hotspots, which reasonably cost considerably more. If you can stomach an extra 10-20m on the subway you can find very livable rents in good neighborhoods.
I use to live in Bay Ridge as well, I was at the end of the R (then RR) line at 95th St. The subway is local from there and it takes a good 45 minutes to reach Wall Street and an hour to reach midtown. On top of that you need to add in the time to and from the station at both ends.
Its been a while since I lived there but living in Bay Ridge is not what people think of when they think of living in NYC. There are no museums or shows, great libraries or parks with concerts. (Although there is Shore Road which is a great place to jog.) Going into Manhattan on weekends is a drag when you ride the subway all week. Honestly, comparing living in Bay Ridge to living in someplace like Pittsburgh, I don't see where it's worth the time that the added expenses costs.
I'm not familiar with Bay Ridge - but you can live in Queens, New Jersey, better parts of the Bronx, even Staten Island and Long Island and have shorter commutes than that for similar rents in safe neighborhoods. Yes, it's not the glamorous Manhattan life that people think of coming home to - but public transportation in New York is the best in the country and you're free to stay out as late as you want...
I haven't been to Tokyo. But I have been to most of the largest cities of North America and Europe. The NYC subway system is extremely inexpensive ($2.50 for as long a ride as you need - as many transfers as you want), has incredibly wide coverage, and is quite reliable. It is one of the largest subway systems in the world. It is old and somewhat dirty if that's what you're referring to? I don't think it's sad.
In addition there are commuter trains that cover most of Long Island, Westchester county, Southwest Connecticut, and North New Jersey that connect to stations serviced by the subway and many run hourly or half hourly. NY buses aren't the best - but no system is perfect.
Last time I was in Tokyo the subway stopped running very early (either midnight or 1 AM) compared to NYC where it never stops.
That has obvious benefits such as helping maintain cleanliness, but I still wouldn't eat a meal without washing my hands after riding on the Tokyo subway.
Have you been to Tokyo? The subway consists of several disjoint systems that don't connect in reasonable ways, each with its own incomprehensibly different payment system, and it stops running at around midnight. New York beats it by a mile.
You live in Bay Ridge so you can afford to live in greater NYC and access NYC opportunities. Not to live in Bay Ridge for the Bay Ridge lifestyle (necessarily.. some people live there for the schools).
This is the most real reason to live in Bay Ridge. It's a suburb, realistically, but connected to a subway and within shooting distance of a lot of useful/interesting stuff.
I don't find myself often venturing to uptown Manhattan, Williamsburg, or anywhere in Queens. My fiancee and I live in Bay Ridge, some family members live in the West Village, and most of our friends live Southern/"Middle" Brooklyn – Park Slope, Bed Stuy, etc.
THAT SAID: The more wholesome amenities available in Bay Ridge blow away most everything else available in Brooklyn (notable exceptions are only Park Slope, BoCoCa, Williamsburg proper). Considering the price, a bargain of a neighborhood. Dining/Drinking-wise, the neighborhood itself is going through a small revolution. Good stuff happening. Super livable area.
I visit my friend in bay ridge all the time. I take the N to 59th street from 30th in manhatan, and its at least 45 minutes. The R is considerably longer. closer to an hour when you consider walking to the station and waiting for the N. somehow I always see R when I need an N. This situation would be more typical than yours, requiring at least an hour full commute to your destination.
I lived Philadelphia for 9 years (from outside Pittsburgh), I'm curious to what 'a lot more opportunity, a lot more options' mean? I find almost anything NYC can offer that other cities dont are things that I myself do once in a blue moon.
sure, I can't see a 100$+ broadway play at the cost of 24k$ a year in increased housing, but instead I can take the train out for the 1 time a year I do and spend the rest going to i dono, egypt?
I think it's for the career opportunities - there's a huge density of jobs in NYC and a diverse collection of industries. You can job hop and ratchet up your salary if you network and manage yourself well. You can do all this without moving because of the density and transit options. It's really quite rare to be able to do that.
What do you get in NYC that you wouldnt't get elsewhere (or that's hard to get elsewhere) ?
Legitimate question here, since I am thinking of moving there but I have feelings the place is just overhyped as a tourist spot.
I lived in New York from '05-'08. It was fun. I have lots of friends there and I could go out to awesome bars and concerts and comedy shows, and it was generally a great time.
Eventually though, I wanted better opportunities. Nobody wanted to pay in New York. If I looked for web design gigs on Craigslist and elsewhere, everybody seemed to think $10/hour was a fair rate. It was insulting. So I got the hell out.
I moved to DC in 2008 and haven't really looked back. In 2008, it was considerably cheaper, and salaries were generally higher. After struggling to find a decent job when I was first planning to move to New York, I was shocked to find that there were many companies and organizations in DC that were jumping to hire me.
Now I live just outside the city. I actually have kids and own a house. Those things would have never been an option in New York, unless I was willing to raise my kids in a shithole apartment. Granted, DC's cost of living is astronomical, but it's still way more accessible than New York.
Everything that I like about New York is still there when I visit once a year or so. And that's about all the partying I have the stomach for these days anyway. Even if I lived there, the best parts of New York would only benefit me on rare occasions, but the drawbacks would be daily.
All that said, if you're in your mid-20s and looking for a few years of having fun and living in a tenement, go for it. I wouldn't advise against it. But if you're looking to ever settle down in New York, it's not a good idea.
I don't know if any city comes close to New York in terms of the entertainment and culture options available there. Even New York's subway system is unparalleled. DC's Metro is beautiful but functionally, it's only a tiny fraction of the New York subway.
Even in DC, I, I keep thinking of how low the cost of living is in Baltimore or Harrisburg, and whether maybe I should try to convince my employer to let me become part- or full-time remote, and take my DC salary to someplace with a lower cost of living.
A huge quantity of restaurants and bars within walking distance. A big dating pool for singles. No need for a car for the automobile averse. Pretty much every band/show/whatever will make a few stops in NYC.
* Mass transit good enough that you don't need an internal combustion engine
* One of the best pools of internet companies on the east coast
* Extraordinarily diverse: I have friends from all walks of life, from blue collar (UPS delivery) to white collar (finance) to video production, photography, painters, sculptors and trying-to-make-it-actors-but-working-in-service.
* Any kind of cuisine, delivered at any time.
* Live comedy or music any night you want it
* Superb dine-in experiences
* Some of the best museums in the nation
The bad:
* Extraordinarily expensive. But if you live in an outer borough it almost balances out with living in a suburb somewhere: $1500 in rent, $120/mo in transit costs. Compare to Raleigh, NC: $795 for similar apartment in-city-limits, ($100/mo auto insurance, $3.50/gallon @ 27mpg @ 20 mi/day = $78/mo in gas, $300/mo in payments on a $15k car) $478/mo in transit costs. Chose Raleigh because I'm familiar with it, and there are actually some tech companies there (but you'll probably have to commute to RTP unless you're at Red Hat or Citrix or Wells Fargo). So a ~$350/mo (I'd extend this to a generalized 27% - this includes eating out, though not necessarily groceries) premium for living in Brooklyn compared to Raleigh.
* Summers are brutal, and you usually have to rely on in-window units; central HVAC is unheard of except in brand new luxury residential buildings
* Accidentally getting on that one empty car on the subway that just pulled in during rush hour
* Constant temptation to get completely shitfaced every night because there are 5 bars within stumbling distance of home
* It drains your energy until you get used to it.
* It won't be like Sex in the City or Friends (more like Seinfeld with a shittier apartment), and people who expect it to be leave quickly -- thank goodness.
* City income tax on top of state and federal.
* Really, really crappy landlords.
* Really, really crappy sidewalks [translation: too many people don't pick up their dog's (you hope it's a dog's) poo.]
Is that $2200/month per person for the 2 bedroom apartment in Boerum Hill or total? I only ask because $2200/month for any 2 bedroom in Brooklyn these days sounds like a blessing, never mind in Boerum Hill.
My friend left her studio apartment in Clinton Hill and the rent jumped from $1500/month to $2300/month between 2010 and 2012.
Another friend's landlord in Greenpoint has been using 5 units in his building as an AirBnB hotel and is now asking $4500/month for 3 bedroom units in the rest of the building. And those "bedrooms" are really just plywood separators.
Another friend just signed a lease for a $3k/month 1 bedroom with a garden in Bed Stuy.
I love living in Brooklyn but I'm getting pretty tired of seeing the same fancy cocktail places, $16 burger joints, and exorbitant asking prices on apartments deeper and deeper into bk.
It's $2,200/month total + utilities (internet + electric). They looked a lot before finding it. It's a fourth floor walkup with no laundry in the building.
I am paying about $1400 in rent/utilities a month outside Atlanta for a 3/2 plus 2 living rooms on over a acre of fenced in land with a storage shed. Its right in one of the best school districts and one of the top High Schools in the state.
A friend of mine recently visited from NYC and remarked about how he is paying $3000 for a place in Manhattan with one room. I couldnt imagine living in a building taking an elevator to my place. Cant have pets and he can barely have people over to sit down.
From the stories I hear about SF and NYC, I am probably never going to move to either.
> I couldnt imagine living in a building taking an elevator to my place.
I suppose different people have different preferences. I couldn't imagine stepping out of my door and having literally nothing interesting (not even a grocery store or coffee shop!) in walking distance. Or rather, I can imagine it, because I grew up in suburbia, but I can't imagine wanting to move back. Just feels way too isolated being so far from everything and unable to do even the simplest things without driving.
Of course, I don't personally take the elevator, rather the stairs, because my building has no elevator. :D
I don't know. Living in NYC has taught me to make-do with less stuff. Storage space and closets are at a premium here. One thing that is great, I don't buy things to keep in the house, like books, or stuff from Amazon without really thinking hard about it, or if I know I can resell it/give it away later. In California, i would just go to target if i needed something.. there was always somewhere in the apt to keep/store it.
She should move almost anywhere else. In one of the most expensive parts of North Carolina, a one bed room appartment rents for ~$600 a month, and $30K isn't a lot, but it's enough to live reasonably comfortably.
She lived in Park Slope for the first two years, sharing a two bedroom, fifth floor walkup, attic apartment. The entire apartment was maybe 20 x 20 ft with a good part of it of limited use due to the slant of the roof. Rent was $1,500 a month including utilities. It was a great neighborhood though and she really enjoyed her time there.
The apartment building was sold to a luxury developer and the rent was raised to $2,300 a month. The new owners really just wanted the building empty so they could gut it and change it to luxury apartments. We walked by there this past weekend and the place was boarded up.
Her new apartment is a legitimate two bedroom in a clean but very old building on the edges of Boerum Hill. The neighborhood is okay but you need to be aware that two blocks away it starts get dodgy very quickly. The rent is $2,200 + utilities. Her and her apartment mate looked for two months to find the apartment. It was the only thing they could find that was affordable but wasn’t a filthy dump. The leases on the old and new places overlapped by a month and a half but they had to look early because the inventory is so limited.
Real estate in NYC has gone crazy. Manhattan prices are driven by international buyers looking for a place that’s safe. One bedroom apartments in Manhattan for less than a million are becoming scarce according to the NYT. Brooklyn is priced at what Manhattan was a couple of years ago. The downtown area of Brooklyn has been very popular because of the availability of mass transit to get people into their jobs in Manhattan. As you move out from downtown Brooklyn the commute time increases quickly as subway lines spread out and express trains make less frequent stops. Two to three hours a day on a subway commute becomes old very quickly.
NYC is a great place but unless you have some equity in the place you work you’re very likely not going to be able to afford to have the life you think is waiting for you there.